Religion

[Phantom549]

Hey guys, religion has always caught my attention because, to me, it is a big mystery and it ultimately leads to big things in the world, whether good or bad. So, i was just wondering what people thought about religion and/or what their religious views are. I dont want this to become a flame war on each other or anything, lets just try to keep this civilized for once lol.
well here it goes...

my views, i am a christian but not an average one. i believe there is a creator and jesus did die for people's sins but i also believe in evolution. "believe in a creator and evolution?? thats crazy!!!" imo, you cannot deny a God/creator. You can always ask "Well where did that come from?" and it would always go down to the high possibility that there is some sort of supernatural, superior being out there somewhere. But, when someone asks "Well where did God come from?" I am always stumbled but I just say that that is something we will never know and I just keep my faith. I also look at the scientific route and i'd have to agree on the theory of evolution, it doesn't bother me that our descendants could be some sort of monkey. who says God couldnt have created life as some single-celled organism and then provided it with the stages of evolution? I do not go to church, and I havn't gone at all during my whole life. I might change that and start going in the future, but right now I dont really see the big issue if someone doesnt go. I can still worship God at my house, and I pray just about every night before I go to bed.

So yea, those are my thoughts and beliefs. What are yours?

PS - Please, if anybody's beliefs or thoughts discourage you dont bring it here and its probably know use even to debate with the other person on the issue. But if you have to try to change someone's mind use PM's. Do not post in here unless you have something worth saying that is relevant to the discussion topic.

[Phantom549]

please read my post, thanks man :cool:

[fivestring]

I'm a Christian. I read the Bible, I have faith in God's Word.

-Nick

[Rapchizzle]

I don't believe in God.

but seriously, like it or not, it will turn into an adolescent flame war here. If you want to discuss politics or religion with people who know what they're talking about and not what their parents tell them, go to the "Off Topic" section of Charlestonfishing.com.

[Phantom549]

thank you fivestring for a nice, well educated post.
i've been thinkin about writing a faith based song, do you mind if i ask your opinion on the lyrics i have so far?

[mini ben]

agnostic. I believe that there is something out there who created us but don't know who or what it is.

I believe there is a lot more life out there. If one star has life then the thousands of other stars must have life.

[fivestring]

Yeah, you can throw 'em past me.

I'll say this as well....Faith is a choice. Faith that a roller coster will not crumble to the ground while you are on it is a choice. I will never begrudge someone for a choice they make...we all have free will and that is what makes us different than the furry critters on the ground :P

I will agree w/ Bluemidget that a public forum such as this really does not serve as a good place for religious discussion just as it does not serve well for political discussion. Ultimately what happens is that feelings get hurt and friendships get scars that don't go away.

I think I'll leave it there.

-Nick

[bloodyswimmingpool]

I actually have to agree with blue midget. this thread is going to go nowhere very quick. Believe me. Religion and politics are very touchy subjects. I'll predict that this thread will be shut down by sunday

[Mikesac]

im catholic and agnostic reason why is;

Catholic: im catholic because iw as baptised and i went to catholic school for awhile took religoun and went to church every sunday with my mom. So i was raised a catholic

Agnostic: i dont really belive that there is somethign there when we die and i dont belive god made us because i belive in science more then religoun science to me is physical and Belief in god is spritualism. Also if there was a God then why have many people stopped beliving in him?

[Phantom549]

well i mean, i was hoping to get the point across to where people dont have to hide their beliefs or thoughts about it if they dont want to. if they dont want to talk about it, read about it, etc. then why visit a thread based on it? this was intended to be open discussion but keeping it civil while doing so. i dont care if people have different views. you dont see me jumping on bluemidget's, mini ben's, or mikesac's back for having different opinions. i respect their beliefs and i hope they can do the same in return. i've met most of the people on here at the field and they are all nice laid back people, their religious views arent going to change my mind.

everybody has different beliefs, why be shy to express them?

if admins think this thread is a bad idea, go ahead and close it. i dont want to start anything bad lol.

[Rapchizzle]

im catholic and agnostic reason why is;

Catholic: im catholic because iw as baptised and i went to catholic school for awhile took religoun and went to church every sunday with my mom. So i was raised a catholic

Agnostic: i dont really belive that there is somethign there when we die and i dont belive god made us because i belive in science more then religoun science to me is physical and Belief in god is spritualism. Also if there was a God then why have many people stopped beliving in him?

that's called atheism. not agnosticism

[bunkermonkey376]

Well, where to start.

I am what is called a "Cafeteria Catholic" which that I'm a Catholic that picks and chooses what to believe from the Catholic Faith.

I was raised as a Catholic, but throughout the last few years I have become extremely about the whole religion issue.

I believe that since we, as humans, are intelligent design that there must be an intelligent designer(a God). If you study the universe you will see that it is way to perfect to have just randomly happened. One example is that if the Earth were one mile closer or farther away from the sun, we wouldn't exist because it would either be to hot or to cold for our species to exist.

I believe there was someone called Jesus, there is way to much evidence to deny that. I am very skeptical about Jesus being the Son of God because if Jesus is God, how can he be the Son of God, that's like me being my own father.

I don't really believe in the Holy Trinity because that means that God is three different people that are all 100% God, it doesn't make sense to me.

I believe that the Pope is infallible on religious matters only and he is God's representative on Earth.

I don't believe that pre-marital sex is wrong/evil.

I have lots to discuss, and it would probably turn into an essay, so I'll stop after this comment.

I believe that in order for someone to go to Heaven, they just have to be a good person and follow the Ten Commandments. And by Follow the Ten Commandments I mean follow what God wrote not what the Church inferred from the Ten Commandments.

That is all I will write for now.

But to answer your question, I'm kind of like my own religion.

[bunkermonkey376]

im catholic and agnostic reason why is;

Catholic: im catholic because iw as baptised and i went to catholic school for awhile took religoun and went to church every sunday with my mom. So i was raised a catholic

Agnostic: i dont really belive that there is somethign there when we die and i dont belive god made us because i belive in science more then religoun science to me is physical and Belief in god is spritualism. Also if there was a God then why have many people stopped beliving in him?

One, your reason for being a Catholic is an awful one, just because you were raised a Catholic doesn't mean you are one.

And Agnostics believe there is some sort of God.

Science and Religion actually go hand in hand and don't disapprove each other. Science has actually helped prove that there is God. The cloak of Jesus was proved by Science to actually be Jesus.

Science is physical and religion is spiritual, but science just helps figure out facts about certain things like religion.

So many people have stopped believing in God because he as our creator gave us free will. Free will is the ability to chose what to do and to chose between what we think is right or wrong. God gave us free will because he wanted to see how many of us would love him the same way He loves us. He also didn't want to create us without free will because that would make us slaves to His will, but He has infinite love for us and wanted us to live the way we saw fit not the way He saw fit.

[Deeply Disturbed]

How can you have so much faith in the Pope but not in Jesus? You DO realize that the Catholic Church was founded by a DISCIPLE of Christ, right? And if the Pope's word is infallible, how do you explain the terrible things Pope's have done in the past?

[bunkermonkey376]

How can you have so much faith in the Pope but not in Jesus? You DO realize that the Catholic Church was founded by a DISCIPLE of Christ, right? And if the Pope's word is infallible, how do you explain the terrible things Pope's have done in the past?

I have trouble believing that Jesus IS God, not what he says. I would have no trouble believing that Jesus was the Son of God, just that He was God. That DISCIPLE of Christ was told by Christ that he would be the person that GOD builds His church on. The Pope is God's messenger on Earth. I believe God is real, so I believe that the Pope is infallible on religious matters, but, so I can properly answer your question, what specific "terrible" things are you refering to?

[Tbigs]

Back in the day the Pope would tax the people and keep it for himself. He would often have "special" guest come to comfort him. He believed himself to be greater than the people and that they should honer him and stray away from honoring God like the pope was meant to teach the people. I don't think that what people have done in the past should make us look differently on completely different people though.

[bunkermonkey376]

Back in the day the Pope would tax the people and keep it for himself. He would often have "special" guest come to comfort him. He believed himself to be greater than the people and that they should honer him and stray away from honoring God like the pope was meant to teach the people. I don't think that what people have done in the past should make us look differently on completely different people though.

What specific Popes are you refering to because they didn't all do that.

I'm not really sure where you get this information about the Pope thinking he was greater than everyone else, or about the "special" guest thing. The part about taxing the people is wierd because the Pope wasn't the King, so how did he have the power to raise taxes, unless you are refering to tithing.

But anyway, taxing and "special" guests aren't even religious matters, and that is the corrupt human nature of whatever Popes you're refering to.

[CCIiscool]

doesn't sound like you know too much about history.
Popes sold indulgences, little peices of paper saying you could get out of purgatory or into heaven. I think this is the "taxes" he's referring to. The pope does not have the power to let people into heaven, and purgatory is a whole other topic. Many popes have had illegitimate children in the past. Some popes have been good, but others have been very corrupt and did not represent the Church well.

[Phantom549]

the pope could have the power to raise taxes whenever a monarchy would fall and the church would gain power.

[iown26]

this thread is soo messed up
imo it needs to be shut down

[Phantom549]

why do you think its messed up?

[iown26]

b/c there is just false accussations of the catholic church and stuff like that
i dont think it ever should have began and thats why im done with it

[Tbigs]

It has actually been going pretty well. People aren't arguing about there views being right or better. We are actually serious about this so don't mess it up.

[Phantom549]

^agreed.
if you're done with it, then be so.

can yall tell me why people separate Catholics from Christians? i mean they're pretty much the same thing just with a few different rules and beliefs right? my friend is catholic and i asked him why people think catholics and christians are thought of being different and he said that he didnt know.

[Tbigs]

Most religions are separated in to different denominations. I am nondenominational. I beleive that Jesus is my savior and He died for my sins so that I will go to Heaven. Different denomination beleive that there are certain things that you have do and ways you have to behave to go to Heaven. The way mine works is that once you are Baptized and once you truly beleive in God and His Son then you are safe, just as long as you ask for forgiveness. Just my take on it.

[Phantom549]

yea im nondenominational too. but i believe that as long as you lead a good life with no bad background, believe in god, and pray then you will earn your right into heaven. i dont believe that if you do something horribly wrong then ask for forgiveness that that will automatically clean your soul from the sin. i believe that you must work hard and be positive throughout your life in order to clean your soul from it. i have not been baptized and i have NEVER gone to church before. I've been to a church, but not for religious purposes. later in life, i plan on changing that :)

[Tbigs]

Why not change now?

[Phantom549]

me and my family arent part of a church...
plus i am in need of a car lol. but hopefully i will be getting one soon :)

[bunkermonkey376]

doesn't sound like you know too much about history.
Popes sold indulgences, little peices of paper saying you could get out of purgatory or into heaven. I think this is the "taxes" he's referring to. The pope does not have the power to let people into heaven, and purgatory is a whole other topic. Many popes have had illegitimate children in the past. Some popes have been good, but others have been very corrupt and did not represent the Church well.


Actually I do, I've gone to Catholic school for 4 years, and I have a History Buff for a father, and I probably know more about history than you do.

I know of indulgences, and illegitimate children, but actually not many Popes did that. I also never said the Pope had the power to let people into Heaven, that's not his job. I'm not saying that all Popes were flawless, perfect people, I know all this. Popes also sold positions in the Catholic Church which wasn't right either.

The Popes aren't perfect and aren't supposed to be, they're human which isn't perfect. I know SOME Popes have done wrong things, but the Church has apologized for the wrong things they've done throughout history. Everyone makes mistakes, so don't get all pissy about the Church and point out the wrong things they've done. Why don't all you people who keep downing the Church think about all the good things they've done?

To Phantom, which monarchy fell which left the Church in control?

[CCIiscool]

I'm Lutheran, so i guess i'm a little biased but you probably are too because you go to Catholic school. That stuff doesn't happen so much any more but it used to be a huge problem, hence Martin Luther. Whatever, this whole thread is kinda lame

[bunkermonkey376]

Most religions are separated in to different denominations. I am nondenominational. I beleive that Jesus is my savior and He died for my sins so that I will go to Heaven. Different denomination beleive that there are certain things that you have do and ways you have to behave to go to Heaven. The way mine works is that once you are Baptized and once you truly beleive in God and His Son then you are safe, just as long as you ask for forgiveness. Just my take on it.

So if I truly believe in God and Jesus, and I'm Baptized I will go to Heaven even if I go kill 1,000 people for no reason?

yea im nondenominational too. but i believe that as long as you lead a good life with no bad background, believe in god, and pray then you will earn your right into heaven. i dont believe that if you do something horribly wrong then ask for forgiveness that that will automatically clean your soul from the sin. i believe that you must work hard and be positive throughout your life in order to clean your soul from it. i have not been baptized and i have NEVER gone to church before. I've been to a church, but not for religious purposes. later in life, i plan on changing that :)

You do realize that you are trans-denominational for saying that, right?
You're crossing the main ideas of Catholicism and Protestantism together.
Catholics believe that faith and good deeds gets you into Heaven while Protestants believe that all you need is Faith.

Jesus said that He has the power to forgive sins which is the power of God, which he passed down after his resurrection. So why don't you believe that's ok?
You can recieve the Eucharist or pray heavily to forgive venial sins or you can go to Confession to have

[Tbigs]

So if I truly believe in God and Jesus, and I'm Baptized I will go to Heaven even if I go kill 1,000 people for no reason

If you ask for forgiveness then yes. That is what God and Jesus told us to do.

[orange ion dude]

All I have to say is that I'm a Christian, I may not go to church as much as I should or pray but I still believe in God.

[Phantom549]

yes Jesus said he had the power to forgive, and yes it was supposedly passed down but i cant picture a man of God forgiving someone who has killed so many people; especially when one of the 10 commandments says that you shouldn't hurt/kill thy neighbor.

to me, believing that Mother Teresa and Hitler are in the same place together is crazy.

[iown26]

im going to step in to get the picture straight
yes u can be forgiven if u are truly sorry and repent(and i mean u got be really sorry)
but u cant just be like ya im sorry big deal and just keep going on with your daily life

btw ive been watching the tread and its been going really well to my suprise....

[colin2722]

So if I truly believe in God and Jesus, and I'm Baptized I will go to Heaven even if I go kill 1,000 people for no reason?

well if you truly beleive in God and Jesus then you beleive and follow the 10 comandments and Gods holy word. Which says thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. and in the comandments it says thou shall not murder.

[Phantom549]

you can believe in God and Jesus, but you also dont have to follow all 10 commandments.

Many Christians have sex before they are married and thats a sin. Do yall believe they will go to hell?

[iown26]

well people mess up some times(yes i know killing 1000 people is a pretty big **** up)
but that is why we are given the chance to repent. this is also how conversions happen

[iown26]

if they keep doing it and dont repent then yes its a pretty big chance they will

[colin2722]

if they dont repent then yes. God also says that christens need to be either hot or cold not lukewarm or he will spit them out. meaning to be a christen that obeys or not beleive in him at all. a christen who is a hypocrite is lukewarm therefore will not make it into the holy gates of heaven

[bunkermonkey376]

yes Jesus said he had the power to forgive, and yes it was supposedly passed down but i cant picture a man of God forgiving someone who has killed so many people; especially when one of the 10 commandments says that you shouldn't hurt/kill thy neighbor.

to me, believing that Mother Teresa and Hitler are in the same place together is crazy.

Hitler probably didn't ask for forgiveness and even if he did, he definately wasn't sorry for it.

you can believe in God and Jesus, but you also dont have to follow all 10 commandments.

Many Christians have sex before they are married and thats a sin. Do yall believe they will go to hell?

No, as I said earlier that's one of the things I disagree with even though I know why the Catholic Church thinks that pre-marital sex is a sin. It doesn't really make sense to me.

if they dont repent then yes. God also says that christens need to be either hot or cold not lukewarm or he will spit them out. meaning to be a christen that obeys or not beleive in him at all. a christen who is a hypocrite is lukewarm therefore will not make it into the holy gates of heaven


That's why God created Pergatory for all the unclean spirits(not evil spirits) that lead a good life, but weren't perfect or something of the sort.

[colin2722]

no God did not create pergatory, he created forgiveness. the catholic church came up with that to make money.

[bunkermonkey376]

no God did not create pergatory, he created forgiveness. the catholic church came up with that to make money.

Ummm, actually no one knows, there's much speculation about Pergatory. How can someone know, do they talk to the dead?

It seems like everyone likes to portray the Catholic Church as being greedy and selfish, and how exactly did the church make money off pergatory

[iown26]

this is where its going to get bad
there was a lot of contreversey(sp??) in the older times of the catolic church
yes they did some bad things, but im pretty shure they say those were corrupt popes and what not, but correct me if im wrong

[colin2722]

ok God never said you had to pay for forgiveness. the catholic church had monks who would basically sell tickets for forgiveness. they were little prayers and the more you paid the less you had to say. its history.

[iown26]

they were called indulgences and yes it was wrong that they did this but they fully regret it and admit it wasnt right

[Tbigs]

Colin where did you learn about the lukewarm and hot and cold thing?

[colin2722]

church. i also tend to read my bible.
Revelation 3:16 (NKJV)
16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

[bunkermonkey376]

ok God never said you had to pay for forgiveness. the catholic church had monks who would basically sell tickets for forgiveness. they were little prayers and the more you paid the less you had to say. its history.


That had nothing to do with pergatory, those little pieces of paper were for getting into Heaven, not going to pergatory. it's history get it right.

Oh and out of 266 Popes only 3-5 Popes were actually corrupt, so don't refer to the whole church as being "bad"

The New King James Version of the Bible is a differnet version of the Bible translated by Protestants who put their own views and opinions in there when they translated it

[iown26]

just wondering, are you catholic bunkermoney???
its fine if u wish to not discuss your denomination

[colin2722]

never said the church was bad. all churches have members that are not perfect and everyone makes bad choices and decisions. some just get exploited more then others.

[bunkermonkey376]

never said the church was bad. all churches have members that are not perfect and everyone makes bad choices and decisions. some just get exploited more then others.


Which is what yall are constantly doing when you mention the Catholic Church, what about the Great Popes? What about all the good the Catholic Church has done? Mention that maybe...

[Tbigs]

My church used to say that all the time and I thought that you might have gone there.

[bunkermonkey376]

My church used to say that all the time and I thought that you might have gone there.

What are you talking about?

[Tbigs]

Talking to Colin.

[colin2722]

sorry man not trying to offend anyone or religion. i mean its all preference and opinion and faith right. so anyone wanna discuss the mormon church?

[iown26]

hes talking about the thig colin said about lukewarm and wat not

[iown26]

actually i would b/c i dont know anything about it....

[colin2722]

i mean there was a "prophet" in like the 1800's that said he had a vision that he needed to build a new church and then God would come back. It seems a little scetchy to me

[bunkermonkey376]

sorry man not trying to offend anyone or religion. i mean its all preference and opinion and faith right. so anyone wanna discuss the mormon church?


Haha, you didn't offend me. I was simply defending the Catholic Church. I'm not really that religious, I just wanted to defend the religion that I was raised as.

Seriously what about the mormon church? I never even met a mormon.

[colin2722]

i actually have a very close friend that is mormon but i dont really understand how someone could beleive that. dont get me wrong, shes the nicest girl you will ever meet but its hard for me to beleive that because she doesnt beleive that Jesus is her lord and savior that she will not go to heaven.

[bunkermonkey376]

i actually have a very close friend that is mormon but i dont really understand how someone could beleive that. dont get me wrong, shes the nicest girl you will ever meet but its hard for me to beleive that because she doesnt beleive that Jesus is her lord and savior that she will not go to heaven.

Yeah, that's kind of like Islam in a way. The Muslims don't believe that Jesus is their lord and savior either, they just believe He was a great prophet.

[colin2722]

yeah. thats another one. muhamod(sp?) just said he had a vision but never wrote anything down. he also had relations with a nine year old. thats not very spiritual to me.

[iown26]

well you have to remeber in that time girls were getting married to 40 yr old at the age of 15
but ya 9 is really young

[colin2722]

yes i understand but thats not the point, premaritial sex is against God's will and they werent married.

[iown26]

true, true

[Phantom549]

what is yalls opinion on heaven?
like do you think there are spirits floating around everywhere on clouds?
what do you think it'll look like? do you believe your soul will be an image of your body? if so, there will be a lot of old people up there lol.

i believe that heaven will be based on how someone has lived there life... like... if you lived in a house on a lake all your life then heaven will be similar. and souls wont have a human-like image, just like a shadow type thing.

[iown26]

its says in the bible that everyone will have their body at it's physical peak.
i.e. around 25-30
i think that bible says something like it will be a place where giving glory to God never ends...so if u like doing something that glorifies God then you can do it...im pretty shure thats right but correct me if im wrong

[Rapchizzle]

I don't believe in heaven

[iown26]

do u believe in God???

[pbc addict2]

if he does not believe in heaven ... not so sure if he believes in god..

[iown26]

well im just sying there are some peole out there like that....
for example people who say they are catholic but they support abortion..

[bunkermonkey376]

what is yalls opinion on heaven?
like do you think there are spirits floating around everywhere on clouds?
what do you think it'll look like? do you believe your soul will be an image of your body? if so, there will be a lot of old people up there lol.

i believe that heaven will be based on how someone has lived there life... like... if you lived in a house on a lake all your life then heaven will be similar. and souls wont have a human-like image, just like a shadow type thing.


Heaven is like Earth, but without evil and is completely perfect in every way. Hell = opposite

Angels are not the same as humans, humans have souls which go to Heaven, but they do not "turn into Angels." Angels were created before humans and are completely separate. For example, St. Michael the Archangel was created by God but was never human, just a spirit. But the souls of the faithful departed that go to Heaven are represented by their peak of human perfection that they achieved in their time on Earth.

[bunkermonkey376]

well im just sying there are some peole out there like that....
for example people who say they are catholic but they support abortion..


Then they aren't Catholic. I believe that God gave us free will to choose what we do, so if a women wants to have her baby killed just to avoid having it that rests on her conscience, but I do think they should be informed of the risks.

[Rapchizzle]

I don't believe in God.



do u believe in God???

nope

[Bermy]

Chris,

This is an exerpt from my Force structure:

3.1.2.4. Be spiritually ready to accomplish the mission. Spiritual readiness is the development of
those personal qualities needed to help a person through times of stress, hardship, and tragedy.
Spiritual readiness may or may not include religious activities.

Now, this is a core requirement for my duties. It has always bothered me, because to me is seems like that last sentence was just kind of thrown in there simply for the "seperation of Church and State" rule. The Military lifestyle really pushes religion on you, in the forms of prayer, speaking to a Chaplain instead of a qualified counselor or therapist (I've never understood that) and for feeling of inclusion, I guess. I feel it's used too much as a tool, not so much to Praise the Lord, as it was designed.

[Bermy]

Another quick question, have you noticed anything like that exerpt tied into your teachings in your school, Chris?

[Rapchizzle]

not exactly. During knob year, they make you learn the Cadet Prayer, though the school's official stance is it's not required to know.

Cadet Prayer

Almighty God, the source of light and strength, we implore Thy blessing on this our beloved institution, that it may continue true to its high purposes.

Guide and strengthen those upon whom rests the authority of government; enlighten with wisdom those who teach and those who learn; and grant to all of us that through sound learning and firm leadership, we may prove ourselves worthy citizens of our country, devoted to truth, given to unselfish service, loyal to every obligation of life and above all to Thee.

Preserve us faithful to the ideals of The Citadel, sincere in fellowship, unswerving in duty, finding joy in purity, and confidence through a steadfast faith.

Grant to each one of us, in his (her) own life, a humble heart, a steadfast purpose, and a joyful hope, with a readiness to endure hardship and suffer if need be, that truth may prevail among us and that Thy will may be done on earth. *Through Jesus Christ, Our Lord. Amen.

(Composed for the Centennial by Bishop Albert S. Thomas, Ret., First Honor Graduate, Class of 1892)

(*–optional for non-christians)




That's about it. There are Religious Officers in the corps though.

[Bermy]

Yeah, not as underlying as the Military.